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At 12:53:43 on 29.09.09, Flicka wrote: I just started to do a lot more ground work with my horses this year after going on a 'horse listening' course and just came across these videos by Anna Twinney which I think will be very helpful. I've given a link to the first video in the series-it looks like there are eight in all and if you double click you should be able to see those as well. Let me know what you think of them.
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At 22:29:58 on 30.09.09, plodalong wrote: hi flika,i watched the first video, and it appears that Anna is teaching, what i know as the driving game. did you notice that when the game begins the horse is bobbing his head at ground level, this tells me that the horse is showing submission without fear.he is relaxed and listening to the driver.one ear on where he .is going and one on her.this is how horses move each other around in the field and how the pecking order is sorted .the horse that drives is usually the higher ranking horse,Anna is using passive body language and releases the pressure on the horse as soon as the horse moves in the desired direction.she releases the pressure by taking her eye contact away from the horses eyes.in between the driving game anna is playing what i know as the friendly game,giving rubs and scratches when the horse does the right thing.in my opinion the follow up would have been better if the lady had used angles to unstick the horses feet.when angles are used its not percieved by the horse to be preditorial behaviour and he will be more confident to follow.horses like to have leadership and the driving and friendly games improve the bond between horse and handler.it increases the horses confidence in its handler,.these are games that horses play between themselves and when people grasp the consept and work on it then a language develops between horse and handler while on the ground ,it develops respect and confidence which will later be apparent when the horse is being ridden.this lady was lovely to watch,the horse looked happy and relaxed and confident in his enviroment. thanks for putting it up .all this is only my opinion,it will be interesting to read how others see it.
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At 11:35:34 on 01.10.09, PonyPower wrote: Very interesting, gives a lot of food for thought and def helps with the parelli stuff I am trying to do.
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At 23:21:16 on 10.10.09, plodalong wrote: look at bojangles.he is asking me the question,is this what you want me to do?he is such a good lad.
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At 09:04:36 on 12.10.09, Flicka wrote: That's a brilliant picture plodalong. Yes, I've been using the driving game just at walk with my very spooky mare and we've really formed a bond and she's become much more confident. I was interested in what you said about using 'angles' to unstick the horses feet-how does that work?
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At 21:19:38 on 12.10.09, plodalong wrote: hi flicka. sometimes horses get so worried and afraid that they cant move thier feet,Using predatorial behaviour like we often do ,only makes things more scary for the horse, it doesnt matter how much he trusts you if you are acting like a predator he will either be stuck to the floor until you have approached him to a certain distance(horses are excellent judges of distance, they need this skill to survive its inbuilt)have you ever seen somebody trying to catch their horse by hiding the halter behind thier back,stooping slightly, walking very slowly and approaching the horse in a straight line? now just imagine it from the horses point of view. you are stalking him, looking very sneaky, totally focused on the horse,he is at this point afraid, not thinking that you want to catch him,not to avoid work, not because he is stubborn.He thinks you are going to kill him.theres no way you will catch him like this, the rest of the cartoon goes like this, get a few more predators to surround him add a couple of lunge lines to trap him in a corner,now the horse becomes defensive,kicking striking,trying to bite, he has now convinced himself that you are going to eat him.he is terrified.Watch a nature programme and see the lion approach a water hole, he will walk right to it,now watch the zebra do the same thing, they will walk a few steps look, and wait, retreat a few steps, look and wait,they wont even look mat the water hole they are too busy looking out for predators. hope this is making sense.when i go to get my horse,he catches me. i go into the field with a purpose,i stand upright and smile at the sheep i dont look at bo, i say hello to the grass and sometimes just sit on the wall, while i am walking towards bo i will zig zag across the field.I dont want to look or act like a predator by being linear,If your horse stops and refuses to go forward.there must be a reason and instead of urging him on in a straight line then try to move him left or right, try using angles to load the horse into the trailer, he is first and foremost a prey animal, why would he want to go into a small cave on wheels? well he wouldnt there may be a lion in there.he is probablly frightened but will go in because he trusts you not to let any harm come to him but sometimes he cant get the message to his feet so again by prompting him to go to the right or left will help him to unstick his feet and then he will willingly go in.did you see bo on the pedastal, this isnt a circus trick, Bo wouldnt load when i first got him.now he does . if my horse cant stand on a pedastal with confidence how can i expect him to stand on a trailer or lorry ramp with confidence .If i cant get him to stand on different surfaces like tarps,then why would i expect him to cross wooden bridges that bounce or water fords? Bo learnt to load ,not by walking straight into the trailer but by first gaining confidence by using angles, imean by walking across the ramp each way.when we got to a good place and he thought about it then we left it and resumed the day after, eventually he offered,himself to go into the trailer,Then it was his idea not mine. he went in because he trusted me and my leadership, i hadnt forced him in, i didnt let my energy levels get to high, and i took the time it took in a quiet but persistant way.i will shut up now.hope this has answered your question about the use of angles. in the video the lady was very linear and acting like a predator. if she had walked first left then right the horse would have been more willing to follow.Angles can also work in a different way. linda parelli calls this game sticky feet. if you are sitting on a horse that wont stand still try turning him very quickly from side to side you will notice that he very quickly sticks his feet to the floor and stands still.
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At 07:45:19 on 13.10.09, Angelalain wrote: Thats really interesting plodalong. Just wondering what I looked like to my pair yesterday as I approached across the field in the rain armed with two rugs trailing everywhere! I obviously wasn't too scary cos they just stood and waited for their macs lol!Have you read Henry Blakes Talking with horses? Doris recommended it to me (I think it was her!) and I got it off ebay. He was dealing with problem horses back in the '50's before we'd heard of Parelli and Mony. Its fascinating, without any of the 'hype ' and showmanship of some of todays trainers. I agree with what they do, I just don't like the way they try to make out they invented it!!!
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At 10:59:16 on 13.10.09, plodalong wrote: this time i have to disagree with you Angelalain, pat parelli always says that natural horsemanship methods are so old that they are new. monty found out for himself at a very young age,but Pat parelli learned the hard way ,he was taught by old cowboy horsemen,such as troy henry,Pat will always thank the people who taught him about horses,and explain why he wants to pass on this information.Yes he is a showman,he is funny and entertaining and out to make money,but i would still like to know everything he knows about horses,Monty is a also a showman,is this not a good way to teach?i think so.I monty or parelli hadnt made videos or written books i would never have heard ,or got interested in natural horsemanship. the first monty video i watched was shy boy. i was fasinated.No i havnt read henry blakes book but i will certainly look out for it, thank you for reccommending it to me.
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At 18:36:35 on 13.10.09, Flicka wrote: Hi Angelalain- I, like you, rather dislike the 'branding' and showmanship of Parelli but Plodalong is quite right isn't she? If he wasn't such a good self promoter and hadn't come up with an educational 'package' that is easy to follow I don't think a lot of us would have heard about these different ideas. A lot of them are old ideas but he definitely gives credit to those who taught him. At least we are all discussing them now and looking at things in a different way. I'm not a big follower of one 'school' in particular but take a little from each when it resonates with my gut feeling. I find it all fascinating!! Thanks Plodalong for passing on what you have learnt. Some of it I do already, but there is always one more piece of the jigsaw puzzle to be gleaned from someone else isn't there! The pic is of my husband having a go with his hunter!
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At 20:18:42 on 14.10.09, plodalong wrote: not just having a go, doing a good job by the looks of it,well done.
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